tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-964979022938948880.post9206256019449790377..comments2023-08-28T19:10:45.798-04:00Comments on Common Sense Catholicism: The Triumph of DivisionKevin Tierneyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09772355448244959559noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-964979022938948880.post-52017234904405921072013-07-29T19:55:48.505-04:002013-07-29T19:55:48.505-04:00We really don't need a name. How is it that I...We really don't need a name. How is it that I was able to carry out a lengthy debate with those sympathetic to those positions, and never once did I have to give them a name? We just debated over the texts of the council, the teachings of the popes, why outlooks should be of certain characteristics, etc.<br /><br />It's worked pretty darn good for the past 11 years I've been doing Kevin Tierneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09772355448244959559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-964979022938948880.post-5260897417346387132013-07-29T19:53:33.936-04:002013-07-29T19:53:33.936-04:00TYPO
"heretic and schismatic or apostate, et...TYPO<br /><br />"heretic and schismatic or apostate, etc., are not all that only viewed, either."<br /><br />should be:<br /><br />"heretic and schismatic or apostate, etc., are not all that FONDLY viewed, either." Dave Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07771661758539438173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-964979022938948880.post-9797085002806361272013-07-29T19:47:05.608-04:002013-07-29T19:47:05.608-04:00That's not nearly good enough to resolve our l...That's not nearly good enough to resolve our little problem and disagreement. Any category that has numerous distinctives has to have a title or name, because it's impossible to write without references to such categories by a title. <br /><br />I defined radtrad above. It took 23 words to do so (I could hone it a bit, but it would still be wordy):<br /><br />"self-righteous, Dave Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07771661758539438173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-964979022938948880.post-42926369416465031202013-07-29T19:35:38.675-04:002013-07-29T19:35:38.675-04:00And someone Jeffrey and myself don't really ar...And someone Jeffrey and myself don't really argue about this stuff. hows that possible?Kevin Tierneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09772355448244959559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-964979022938948880.post-82525066175473369542013-07-29T19:35:16.325-04:002013-07-29T19:35:16.325-04:00And to be clear, I don't call myself a "t...And to be clear, I don't call myself a "traditional Catholic" either.<br /><br />I have always been just a Catholic. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08867188454105241834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-964979022938948880.post-6952456691506347442013-07-29T19:31:58.495-04:002013-07-29T19:31:58.495-04:00I don't refer to myself as a "traditional...I don't refer to myself as a "traditionalist." I don't fault you from not remembering, but I have share this with you before. <br /><br />Again, the pitfalls of grouping people.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08867188454105241834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-964979022938948880.post-45676787357751007082013-07-29T18:57:40.897-04:002013-07-29T18:57:40.897-04:00Okay, now we're getting somewhere.
I've n...Okay, now we're getting somewhere.<br /><br />I've never called myself a "Traditional Catholic" precisely for the reasons Pope Benedict lays out. That assumes that yes, one can be a Catholic without adhering to the Traditions of our fathers, which we all agree is just nonsense.<br /><br />Yet I have always held that one can be a Catholic, and have a distinct charism and way of Kevin Tierneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09772355448244959559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-964979022938948880.post-29410402682773674242013-07-29T18:46:52.285-04:002013-07-29T18:46:52.285-04:00[just posted on my site]
Here is what Pope Benedi...[just posted on my site]<br /><br />Here is what Pope Benedict XV wrote in 1914:<br /><br />It is, moreover, Our will that Catholics should abstain from certain appellations which have recently been brought into use to distinguish one group of Catholics from another. They are to be avoided not only as "profane novelties of words," out of harmony with both truth and justice, but also Dave Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07771661758539438173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-964979022938948880.post-43308934241865202632013-07-29T18:42:30.297-04:002013-07-29T18:42:30.297-04:00Dave, get off your horse. You pointed out a few h...Dave, get off your horse. You pointed out a few hours ago something you thought was insinghtful, and I hadn't yet responded. That's it.<br /><br />But if you really need the response, here goes (since I can respond from a keyboard on blogger, but not facebook.)<br /><br />When it comes to my statement that I made a few times around the election of Pope Francis, I did ineed state that Kevin Tierneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09772355448244959559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-964979022938948880.post-31001726735680257682013-07-29T18:27:18.033-04:002013-07-29T18:27:18.033-04:00Why don't you guys follow suit and stop callin...Why don't you guys follow suit and stop calling yourself "traditionalists" if you hate labels so much? Your friend "Boniface" did just that recently. Bravo! You're the ones moaning about it, and acting like it is the most terrible thing in the world to identify a serious error and put a label on it. <br /><br />Yet you insist on differentiating yourself from the rest Dave Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07771661758539438173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-964979022938948880.post-39208594075289517872013-07-29T09:52:21.368-04:002013-07-29T09:52:21.368-04:00Winner, winner…chicken dinner.
The desire by anyo...Winner, winner…chicken dinner.<br /><br />The desire by anyone to define “them” is wasted energy. Instead of actually discussing ideas, more effort is expended on disagreeing on who is “us” and who is “them.” And while I think it is destructive, I laugh because it is farcical. <br /><br />The entire military is embroiled in making such identity distinctions. It’s all part of the PC BS that Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08867188454105241834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-964979022938948880.post-9299650914486407032013-07-29T07:44:44.839-04:002013-07-29T07:44:44.839-04:00And I granted the "serious" reading. Ye...And I granted the "serious" reading. Yet I also said that doesn't excuse it. As Pete himself admits, it was to counter those who use "Indulter." It was an insult to match an insult. It's also an incredibly anachronistic one nowadays. There is no Indult.<br /><br />Your justification for using the term is "it's awesome, and if only these mouth-breathing Kevin Tierneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09772355448244959559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-964979022938948880.post-71259484920410775652013-07-29T01:32:06.573-04:002013-07-29T01:32:06.573-04:00You may think it helps distinguish with authentic ...<i>You may think it helps distinguish with authentic traditionalists.</i> <br /><br />I don't just "think" it. It DOES do that. It's an act of charity and quite necessary distinction to make. In my 2002 book I simply used "traditionalist" (in quotes) and sometimes "quasi-schismatics". That's not sufficient today, because I recognize (quite consistent withDave Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07771661758539438173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-964979022938948880.post-52806902702070764352013-07-29T01:25:00.749-04:002013-07-29T01:25:00.749-04:00It wasn't to distinguish between "good&qu...<i>It wasn't to distinguish between "good" and "rad" trads. It was a putdown and insult against those who took positions which were opposed to a real reading of the traditions of our fathers.</i><br /><br />Partially, I grant you. It definitely has a polemical / turn-the-tables edge top it. But it also has a serious meaning. I already researched all this months ago. Pete Dave Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07771661758539438173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-964979022938948880.post-82780486492181050512013-07-29T01:12:54.065-04:002013-07-29T01:12:54.065-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Dave Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07771661758539438173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-964979022938948880.post-63810937753185466832013-07-28T23:57:42.417-04:002013-07-28T23:57:42.417-04:00And as far as the facebook discussion, I suppose i...And as far as the facebook discussion, I suppose i should first actually friend you. Don't take it personally I haven't even though we've been cool for several months. There are still members of my now extended family on Amy's side I've known for almost 3 years I haven't friended. I'm lazy on facebook. ;)Kevin Tierneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09772355448244959559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-964979022938948880.post-84993595895536071472013-07-28T23:56:13.911-04:002013-07-28T23:56:13.911-04:00Now that I'm back, my basic thoughts.
Why peo...Now that I'm back, my basic thoughts.<br /><br />Why people try to explain away "radtrad" as anything other than a polemical insult is beyond me. Pete has at least always been honest about why he used the term. It wasn't to distinguish between "good" and "rad" trads. It was a putdown and insult against those who took positions which were opposed to a real Kevin Tierneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09772355448244959559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-964979022938948880.post-10794474194041926842013-07-28T19:07:37.346-04:002013-07-28T19:07:37.346-04:00I'm "weapons hold" and RTB. :)I'm "weapons hold" and RTB. :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08867188454105241834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-964979022938948880.post-21318401593466838842013-07-28T18:12:08.869-04:002013-07-28T18:12:08.869-04:00Now I'm out of town so both of you behave. No...Now I'm out of town so both of you behave. No snark no snide remarks. Ill deal with ya both when I'm back tomorrowKevin Tierneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09772355448244959559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-964979022938948880.post-47607143507251416052013-07-28T17:56:29.802-04:002013-07-28T17:56:29.802-04:00You continue to make me laugh. Emotionalism is fe...You continue to make me laugh. Emotionalism is feeling the need to categorize everyone into neat little groups that "aren't you" instead of simply discussing and critiquing ideas. It's the desire to have an "us" versus "them" paradigm. You see it with the identity politics that is all the rage now. <br /><br />But I really do enjoy the "my Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08867188454105241834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-964979022938948880.post-74423410625629784112013-07-28T15:06:51.254-04:002013-07-28T15:06:51.254-04:00Right. If you want to actually interact with my re...Right. If you want to actually interact with my reasoning, let me know. Same old irrational and merely emotional response . . . <br /><br />I am on record saying that "madtrad" is far more insulting, since it describes either anger or mental instability, whereas "radical" is merely a matter of degree or extremity.Dave Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07771661758539438173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-964979022938948880.post-7718517176257299242013-07-27T16:00:44.196-04:002013-07-27T16:00:44.196-04:00""Neo-Catholic" has no justificatio...""Neo-Catholic" has no justification or proper pedigree. But "radtrad" has significant and substantive justification."<br />----------<br /><br />LMAO. The rhetorical equivalent of my sh-t don't stink." <br />And now we have "mad trads" too. I'm sure someone will claim "significant and substantive justification" for that one as wellAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08867188454105241834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-964979022938948880.post-10865023244027131852013-07-27T13:56:43.253-04:002013-07-27T13:56:43.253-04:00Lastly, I agree with having more than one viewpoin...Lastly, I agree with having more than one viewpoint on the next CA radio show. They should have a mainstream trad and a radtrad, so people can clearly see the difference. My website is famous for having dialogues and folks representing themselves, rather than being characterized by opponents (who will never do as good of a job). I'm all for that.<br /><br />You or any of your readers are Dave Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07771661758539438173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-964979022938948880.post-10762057447566165972013-07-27T13:46:03.928-04:002013-07-27T13:46:03.928-04:00So anyway, you guys are already using that term, s...So anyway, you guys are already using that term, so it is not a polemical or derisive label put onto you (as "neo-Catholicism" certainly is). But there is a need to distinguish mainstream "traditionalists" from far more extreme or ultra ones. Hence, "radtrad": which is simply a short and catchy version of "radical traditionalist." They take things further. Dave Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07771661758539438173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-964979022938948880.post-13130903826626488202013-07-27T13:45:17.283-04:002013-07-27T13:45:17.283-04:00Like any term, people misuse "radtrad," ...Like any term, people misuse "radtrad," but I've written about four lengthy articles now that show that it means quite a bit, and it has content and substance and reflects real folks and their mistaken ideas. I even went into the etymology of the term (it dates from the mid-90s, from Sandra Miesel, and Pete Vere and Mark Shea and Scott Windsor were using it very early also).<br /><Dave Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07771661758539438173noreply@blogger.com